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particledots
Forum Full Member


Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 1500
Location: , United States
 
global warming
Friday, July 21 2017 @ 10:05 AM CDT

Skean
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 1578
Location: , Sweden
 
Re:global warming
Friday, July 21 2017 @ 12:23 PM CDT


I Almost Always Try to Think Positive Thoughts.
VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2943
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:global warming
Sunday, July 23 2017 @ 10:18 PM CDT

1. The tundra thawing sounds serious but
1a. We have basically no historical comparison to say that it really got worse.
1b. Heat propagation through soil is extremely slow. So the chances of sudden belches of CH4 is small.

2. Geo-engineering is evil.
2a. The polar regions are at most risk and they are the hardest to tackle.
2b. Once you start on geo-engineering you commit yourself for the next 1000 years because if you start the climate immediately goes to where it would otherwise have been.
2c. We have no clue if we can get all of the wanted effect and only the wanted effect.

V.

-- My CD.
Calchas
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 1281
Location: Salem, Oregon USA
 
Re:global warming
Monday, July 24 2017 @ 09:35 AM CDT

Geo-engineering?

Nature has a way of bringing matters back into equilibrium over the long haul, if left to herself.

The idea that governments incapable of balancing budgets can successfully spearhead a hyper-massive project like balancing the environment smacks of hubris spawned stupidity.

Three cheers for the Canadian government on this one.

Just sayin'

MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 682
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:global warming
Monday, July 24 2017 @ 12:52 PM CDT

And, unfortunately, there is a great deal that we simply do not know about the environment.   For instance, in Charles Dickens’ day, the Thames River routinely froze each winter. (Article here.)

Dickens’ England was a sooty, grimy place for a wide variety of reasons, and it had been so before the “little ice age” in which he wrote his books, and it remained so after that adverse climactic period, apparently on its own, abated.

There are a number of sound but conflicting theories about the actual cause of climate change, including this one, which posits a change in the sun’s geomagnetic activity.

Although we heard a lot about “An Inconvenient Truth,™” we do not actually know enough to know if it actually was Truth.   Unquestionably it is an interesting hypothesis, well-presented.   But we actually do not know if it is ... Truth.
VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2943
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:global warming
Monday, July 24 2017 @ 11:29 PM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson

There are a number of sound but conflicting theories about the actual cause of climate change, including this one, which posits a change in the sun’s geomagnetic activity.



You're grasping at straws. There are thousands of seemingly plausible explanations, but there is only one that is accepted by basically everyone, including a Koch founded study by a bigshot Berkeley climate-denying professor. (And the oil companies also came to this conclusion quite a while back, before they decided to bury the research.)

1. The temperature is going up. 2. CO2 is the cause 3. We are the source of that CO2.

That's it. Now we better do something about it.

Victor.

-- My CD.
Ed Hannifin
Forum Full Member


Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 3443
Location: , MA USA
 
Re:global warming
Tuesday, July 25 2017 @ 04:35 AM CDT

Quote by: VicDiesel
Quote by: MikeRobinson

There are a number of sound but conflicting theories about the actual cause of climate change, including this one, which posits a change in the sun’s geomagnetic activity.



You're grasping at straws. There are thousands of seemingly plausible explanations, but there is only one that is accepted by basically everyone, including a Koch founded study by a bigshot Berkeley climate-denying professor. (And the oil companies also came to this conclusion quite a while back, before they decided to bury the research.)

1. The temperature is going up. 2. CO2 is the cause 3. We are the source of that CO2.

That's it. Now we better do something about it.

Victor.



Thanks, Victor.

"We have to remember...when it's surrender that's called for, it's not surrender of your brains. It's surrender of your ego. It's a different thing." --Bruce Cockburn
Calchas
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 1281
Location: Salem, Oregon USA
 
Re:global warming
Tuesday, July 25 2017 @ 11:47 AM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson
And, unfortunately, there is a great deal that we simply do not know about the environment.   For instance, in Charles Dickens’ day, the Thames River routinely froze each winter. (Article here.)

Dickens’ England was a sooty, grimy place for a wide variety of reasons, and it had been so before the “little ice age” in which he wrote his books, and it remained so after that adverse climactic period, apparently on its own, abated.

There are a number of sound but conflicting theories about the actual cause of climate change, including this one, which posits a change in the sun’s geomagnetic activity.

Although we heard a lot about “An Inconvenient Truth,™” we do not actually know enough to know if it actually was Truth.   Unquestionably it is an interesting hypothesis, well-presented.   But we actually do not know if it is ... Truth.



Balanced viewpoints are not much appreciated in these typically polarized Forums. (Never have been...) Why it's so hard to accept that there may be a confluence of causes for this global warming phenomenon just escapes me.

Changes in the Sun ARE generating physical changes throughout the solar system (as far away as Jupiter). This is documented fact. But drooling fanatics freak out at the very mention of possible politically unmanageable causes.

They really shouldn't. If this is happening---and it IS--we need to be that much MORE careful (not less so) in how we treat our Mother Earth.

I've always been pro-environment. Even posted two strong tunes several years back about the environmental crises we are enmeshed in and partly the cause of. But this is never enough for the blind self-righteous fanatic. Years ago I tried making this point in a forum like this one and was immediately lynched by one of the above mentioned fanatics. ("Lynched" isn't my word. It's how several other MJs at that time described what was done to me in private e-mails.)

Is it any wonder that MJ continues to melt along with the ice caps!

Anyway Mike, I just want to thank you for trying to inject a bit of balance in the discussion. I just don't expect it will do any good. Balance is just not politically expedient to a drooling fanatic.

And now folks, you may proceed (as per usual) to grab your torches and pitchforks!
VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2943
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:global warming
Tuesday, July 25 2017 @ 01:17 PM CDT

Quote by: Calchas

Changes in the Sun ARE generating physical changes throughout the solar system (as far away as Jupiter). This is documented fact.



Yes. And it has been measured. And no significant relation has been found with the earth's temperature.

Look, you can keep rehashing plausible talking points forever, but when you're doing so in the face of all scientific analysis I can not but conclude that you're not interested in the truth.

Victor.

-- My CD.
 
magnatone
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 4375
Location: N/A
 
Re:global warming
Tuesday, July 25 2017 @ 05:25 PM CDT

Quote by: VicDiesel
Quote by: Calchas

Changes in the Sun ARE generating physical changes throughout the solar system (as far away as Jupiter). This is documented fact.



Yes. And it has been measured. And no significant relation has been found with the earth's temperature.

Look, you can keep rehashing plausible talking points forever, but when you're doing so in the face of all scientific analysis I can not but conclude that you're not interested in the truth.

Victor.


my most recent song: "First Light (solo piano)"