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J.A.Stewart
Forum Full Member


Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 4589
Location: Somewhere In Time, USA
 
Re:Google Silences Prager U
Tuesday, April 10 2018 @ 12:37 PM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson
...I had the very good fortune to stumble upon what basically turned out to be my trade ... first, computer programming, then consulting about the same ... at approximately age five.   Computers, at that time, were locked in air-conditioned rooms.   The minicomputer came on the scene in my early teenage years and the personal computer did not cease to be a toy until well after I had graduated from college.   (With not a farthing of debt.)   I was naturally good at it, and I naturally enjoyed it.   And, I still do.

But my “college degree,” earned in the second year that my college even offered such a thing, was absolutely useless except for the fact that it got me my first job – at that same college, where I had worked part-time all four years.   I learned nothing about my trade from the degree that I earned, but I began to practice that trade in my freshman year, supporting both the day-to-day operations of the school and many interesting academic projects by various faculty members.   (The “poet in residence,” for example, who was studying spelling variations in printed copies of Shakespearean sonnets.   There were no “dictionaries.”   People wrote what they heard.   So, these are surviving although un-intended records of what they did hear.   Plus, I got to do the fun stuff with what graduate-student typists had schlepped in.)...



I don't disagree with much of what you say here, Mike, but I would be reluctant to cast too wide a net based on your own personal experience. While some aspects of my academic education proved to be either unnecessary or irrelevant in the *Real World*, I came to realize that the discipline required to complete that process served me well later in life. So too, did the social interactions that college exposed me to, with both peers, educators and administrators.

It is in that context that I find it somewhat ironic that while you dismiss your college experience, you seem to overlook the obvious — that it DID, in fact, provide you with the opportunity to learn on a job, "supporting both the day-to-day operations of the school and many interesting academic projects by various faculty members."

The college experience is not (or at least should not be) just about "book larnin." Now it is true that some emerge from educational institutions with little more than that in their holsters. They most often lack the *pragmatism* you spoke of in your remarks. During my career as a consultant I dealt with a wide variety of well-educated professionals that included academicians, CEOs, high-priced lawyers, physicians and engineers. Only a small percentage of them were near-sighted, academic eggheads — and those who were, were usually very young.

In time, with the help and guidance of considerate and more experienced people such as yourself, most will evolve to deal with the practicalities of the Real World. For many, if not most people though, I believe the college experience serves as a useful bridge to adulthood and the workaday world. It is often the incidentals of that experience that make valuable contributions to that transition.

There is no OSFA ("one-size-fits-all") arc for everyone. You were fortunate to have stumbled upon your aptitude and trade at an early age. I daresay that is NOT the case for the majority of people. It most certainly was not for me. I was privileged to attend an esteemed private college preparatory high school, but my inclinations tended more towards athletic than academic during that period of my life. Still, the academic rigors forced me to discipline myself, in order to be eligible to participate in athletics. In the process of that discipline, I discovered I had a knack for writing.

That discovery would later lead me to "take the plunge" in college to take a Journalism class after concluding — wisely, I believe — that a career in the NBA was now unlikely (I stopped growing at 6'0"). Wink That class taught me the basic tenets and disciplines of News writing, which are far more stringent than other forms of writing. More importantly, the class led me to participate on the school newspaper, where I encountered some of the most wonderful, creative and zany crazies I have ever encountered in my life. It was a bit like the "Animal House" of college journalism.

Despite that circus atmosphere, every member of the staff was dedicated to gathering stories and producing a weekly product that both informed and entertained the student body — if not the school administration, which was often surprised and embarrased by some of our investigative articles. We won several consecutive national awards as best college newspaper in our class while I was there. That helped me get jobs, first at a daily metropolitan newspaper and later at a local bureau of a national publication. Those jobs either helped, or actually paid for, my continuing education.

Those concurrent experiences — involved in both collegiate and Real World journalism — gave me a valuable perspective on what journalism could be — largely unfettered on a collegiate level — and what it actually was, when it became a "business" in the Real World. Those insights led me to change my major to Communication, where I would learn more about Speech, Radio and TV disciplines.

One other "incidental" benefit of my college experience was... The Student Lounge. Students congregated there between classes and many of them were musicians from various bands around the city. We would bring our guitars to school and get together there to participate in some of the best impromptu jam sessions I ever experienced. And we had a built-in audience that often joined in on sing-alongs. It was a valuable experience that helped me refine my own on-stage techniques and performances. And my Musical experiences also came in handy later for various projects as a consultant. All in all, my college experience provided a “Daisy Chain” of useful experiences for later in life.

I believe there's a line in the Good Book somewhere that says "the years know what the days never see." As I look back on my life experiences I recognize how various events and circumstances seemingly conspired to lead me down my particular career path. The college experience certainly played a significant role in that journey. I suspect that most people would find similar influences in their incidental college experiences.

The current expense of a college education is an entirely different matter. It is one of many disgraces for which our government leaders (Pfft!) should be held accountable and punished. It is, indeed, a form of indentured servitude that does a disservice not only to individual students, but to the future of our nation. Forward-thinking countries Like Denmark prioritize tax-funded education, while our lobby-dependent “representatives” funnel our tax monies to monied interests that will fund their re-election campaigns... the dreaded Iron Triangle scenario.

As it turns out, Eisenhower was somewhat short-sighted in his admonition concerning the military-industrial complex. The danger has grown far more pervasive and broader in scope than he imagined.

MY LATEST: A demo version of my Work-In-Progress DAILY GRIND
VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2996
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:Google Silences Prager U
Tuesday, April 10 2018 @ 03:11 PM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson
  I have met recently-minted PhD’s who had not an ounce of pragmatic sense in them – it was all “book larnin’”



Your cell phone runs on quantum physics and general relativity. Both are very much book larnin. Try to imagine what your life would be if Bell Labs didn't have a research lab with physics Ph.D.s could do pretty much what they felt like, or if Einstein had stuck to his job as patent examiner.

Victor.



-- My CD.
chikoppi
Forum Full Member


Registered: 04/02/04
Posts: 2009
Location: N/A
 
Re:Google Silences Prager U
Tuesday, April 10 2018 @ 05:41 PM CDT

Quote by: J.A.Stewart
I don't disagree with much of what you say here, Mike, but I would be reluctant to cast too wide a net based on your own personal experience. While some aspects of my academic education proved to be either unnecessary or irrelevant in the *Real World*, I came to realize that the discipline required to complete that process served me well later in life. So too, did the social interactions that college exposed me to, with both peers, educators and administrators.

Well said. I graduated college just as the desktop revolution turned my industry on its head. As a result, I found most of the practical skills I learned were immediately made obsolete. However, the college experience provided a great many benefits beyond practical knowledge. Chief among them was development of the analytical, social, and epistemological skills necessary to learn, critique, and adapt. I also attended a liberal arts institution, where I was fortunate to be exposed to a wide assortment of often conflicting ideas and debate. Being challenged and forced to articulate, refute, or defend various positions was an excellent primer for operating in the "real world."

College is only in part about "what" you learn. It's also about "how" one learns to learn.

“Ya, that idea is dildos.” Skwisgaar Skwigelf
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MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 784
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:Google Silences Prager U
Tuesday, April 10 2018 @ 10:22 PM CDT

But, gentlemen, none of us were ever asked to take on (literally ...) a quarter-million dollars in debt to secure that “precious sheepskin.”   As I said, my undergraduate degree including out-of-state tuition cost the candy company about $13,000.

The USA is going to have to re-remember a great many things that it used to take for granted, and this is one of them.   I knew that we were headed for trouble in the mid-1980’s when so-called “Reaganomics” began to become popular, but I never imagined the decades of misrule that would follow.

I also understand, though, what “the Dirty Jobs guy” is saying here, and I will stick by all of those points.   The fact that I began to learn my trade at a college, back then, does not mean that it is a quarter-million dollars’ worth of “experience” today.   Hence my admonition that today’s young people should wait for the political winds to change, as they very surely must.   Don’t take on more debt than the acres of land that I now live on is worth, to pay for a diploma that ought to cost you – at most – a few thousand dollars.   I think that the costs that the candy-man paid were appropriate.   What we are asking of young people today is absurdity itself.
VicDiesel
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2996
Location: Austin, TX
 
Re:Google Silences Prager U
Wednesday, April 11 2018 @ 04:08 AM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson
What we are asking of young people today is absurdity itself.



If you're talking about the US, absolutely.

Victor.

-- My CD.
J.A.Stewart
Forum Full Member


Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 4589
Location: Somewhere In Time, USA
 
Re:Google Silences Prager U
Thursday, April 12 2018 @ 10:19 AM CDT

Quote by: VicDiesel
Quote by: MikeRobinson
What we are asking of young people today is absurdity itself.



If you're talking about the US, absolutely.

Victor.



I believe I stated fairly clearly in the penultimate paragraph of my reply that I consider the cost factor not merely absurd, but perhaps even criminal. It's an absolute disgrace.

MY LATEST: A demo version of my Work-In-Progress DAILY GRIND
MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 784
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:Google Silences Prager U
Monday, April 16 2018 @ 12:22 AM CDT

One day, the young people of the USA will fully comprehend that they have been saddled with the consequences of many decades of misrule at the hands of both now-prevailing political parties.   Perhaps they will be the (first) ones to fully take to heart the warnings given by (Five-Star General and ...) President “Ike” Eisenhower, way back in 1961.   (And perhaps also, citizens of other countries will realize how they have been victimized by it, too.)

To me, this emphasizes the key take-away of the Parable of the Prodigal Son:   that the Son did every single thing that ever happened to him to himself.   No one ever held a gun to his head, or told him that he had ceased to be his father’s son.   And yet, he did not come to his senses until he was fighting for food against a farm-animal who (oh, by the way ...) actually could have killed him.   His self-made trajectory did not stop descending – nor was he apparently aware of it – until it reached and struck the very bottom.   (At which point he re-asserted his birthright(!) and went home.)

I’m no longer sure how much more USA is willing to endure at the hands of utter fools, before it once again realizes that its birthright is still there.

America, when you re-remember who you still are, nothing can stop you, and the world (and your own citizens) will wonder where-the-hell you’ve been and what exactly you’ve been smoking all this time.
 
Daugrin
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/24/09
Posts: 1162
Location: , Extraverse
 
Re:Google Silences Prager U
Thursday, April 26 2018 @ 10:27 AM CDT

updates on the original post in the thread.



#1
Beato is well known on the internet as an all around speaker of truth to power. Every musician can learn from his offerings and he garners a lot of internet traffic. Beato's channels have followed the independence and first amendment issues closely and his whine quotient has pushed off the chart recently, he does hit the "blocking issue" hard here.

#2
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/sharyl-attkisson-make-film-debut-doc-free-speech-1105497

Sorry just a link. She's back! Our favorite info babe Ms. Attkisson will appear in a film called "No Safe Spaces". The film reportedly includes segments with icons from the left and right cultural idents. Mr. Prager figures in the new film and he will reportedly discuss the ongoing litigation with Google over censorship of internet content.

Enjoy. Keep on hating!

Daug